7/26/11
7/22/11
PT 4: Black VS African-American VS American
Esh: "But you ARE an Afro-descendent and that's why you are identified as such. White people have hyphens too, it's just because they're white and their identity has been normalized that they don't have to throw it on there. It's the same thing u...p here - I always get asked where I'm from but if you ask a white person they get thrown off track. It shouldn't be that way and by asking them and forcing them to realize that they have roots somewhere else it'll change, eventually. But in any case, you’re African-American."
Ash: "I'm resisting the labels! Lol... White people always get it...black ones don't hence this drawn out convo."
Jos: "so pick a few countries in Africa that interest you!"
Ant: " It's not because black people don't get it, it’s just because we are easier to differentiate. You stand an African-American next to an Italian-American and you can instantly spot the difference. Stand an Italian-American next to an Irish or ...German one. Can you really tell them apart? And because their bonds aren't as common as African-Americans.
A vast majority of African-Americans can trace their ancestry back to slavery. We all came over roughly the same time (between Jamestown and the end of the transatlantic slave trade). For a similar purpose. Our history has been connected. There was a wave of Germans in the early 1800s another in the 1880s, another in 1912 who all underwent different immigrant experiences.
True blacks in the Caribbean and America came over through the same way but each underwent different circumstances as time passed. There were experiences that are exclusively African-American (civil war, great migration, Harlem renaissance, Jim Crow, civil rights movement, etc.) That differentiates the African-American and say a Haitian or Dominican. All part of the black Diaspora but separate ethnic groups because of the distinctions in history which has shaped their language, culture, etc."
Tierra: "I think people stop at slavery, but shouldn't."
Ant: "I agree Tierra that we stop black history at slavery which is wrong. People should learn about the great African empires of Mali, Ethiopia, Ghana, Zulu, Carthage, Nubia, etc. But as an ethnic group African-Americans do stop at slavery. It was that moment we no longer belonged our respective groups because they erased that history."
Tierra: "they didn't erase it, they just stopped talking about, it's still there, and you can research and find it. In one breath blacks say we still have slave mentalities, in another, they condemn us for not knowing that we are and acting like kings and queens. Why would we if ever reference dates back to slavery"
Stac: " Not really erased at Ant. you can have them take a sample of your DNA and they can trace where your people originated from, and pin point where. An old friend from college paid $600 just to find out he was Ethiopian."
Ant: "That's what I plan on doing once I get out of school. And, I say erased from the slaves. They couldn't speak their language, celebrate their holidays or acknowledge their traditions"
Esh: " It's not that important for me to know where exactly I'm from in Africa. I assume I'm from somewhere in West Africa and that's enough for me - I got love for the whole continent so it's whatever. And I don't understand how this whole process works; frankly I think it sounds a little sketchy.
Also, a lot of people go to Africa and someone will take one look at them and tell them where they're probably from for free ninety-nine lol. It happened to my mom when she was in Ghana and makes me think even less about doling out cash for that. I think the interesting thing about it is that you don't know what you're going to find. Could turn out you hail from enslaved Africans somewhere in Africa too!"
I'm black/afro descendant. The end lol. However, I recognize my elements. It's up to you, what you wanna be :) you're gonna hear bullshit no matter what you choose though"
Ash: "I'm resisting the labels! Lol... White people always get it...black ones don't hence this drawn out convo."
Jos: "so pick a few countries in Africa that interest you!"
Ant: " It's not because black people don't get it, it’s just because we are easier to differentiate. You stand an African-American next to an Italian-American and you can instantly spot the difference. Stand an Italian-American next to an Irish or ...German one. Can you really tell them apart? And because their bonds aren't as common as African-Americans.
A vast majority of African-Americans can trace their ancestry back to slavery. We all came over roughly the same time (between Jamestown and the end of the transatlantic slave trade). For a similar purpose. Our history has been connected. There was a wave of Germans in the early 1800s another in the 1880s, another in 1912 who all underwent different immigrant experiences.
True blacks in the Caribbean and America came over through the same way but each underwent different circumstances as time passed. There were experiences that are exclusively African-American (civil war, great migration, Harlem renaissance, Jim Crow, civil rights movement, etc.) That differentiates the African-American and say a Haitian or Dominican. All part of the black Diaspora but separate ethnic groups because of the distinctions in history which has shaped their language, culture, etc."
Tierra: "I think people stop at slavery, but shouldn't."
Ant: "I agree Tierra that we stop black history at slavery which is wrong. People should learn about the great African empires of Mali, Ethiopia, Ghana, Zulu, Carthage, Nubia, etc. But as an ethnic group African-Americans do stop at slavery. It was that moment we no longer belonged our respective groups because they erased that history."
Tierra: "they didn't erase it, they just stopped talking about, it's still there, and you can research and find it. In one breath blacks say we still have slave mentalities, in another, they condemn us for not knowing that we are and acting like kings and queens. Why would we if ever reference dates back to slavery"
Stac: " Not really erased at Ant. you can have them take a sample of your DNA and they can trace where your people originated from, and pin point where. An old friend from college paid $600 just to find out he was Ethiopian."
Ant: "That's what I plan on doing once I get out of school. And, I say erased from the slaves. They couldn't speak their language, celebrate their holidays or acknowledge their traditions"
Esh: " It's not that important for me to know where exactly I'm from in Africa. I assume I'm from somewhere in West Africa and that's enough for me - I got love for the whole continent so it's whatever. And I don't understand how this whole process works; frankly I think it sounds a little sketchy.
Also, a lot of people go to Africa and someone will take one look at them and tell them where they're probably from for free ninety-nine lol. It happened to my mom when she was in Ghana and makes me think even less about doling out cash for that. I think the interesting thing about it is that you don't know what you're going to find. Could turn out you hail from enslaved Africans somewhere in Africa too!"
I'm black/afro descendant. The end lol. However, I recognize my elements. It's up to you, what you wanna be :) you're gonna hear bullshit no matter what you choose though"
7/21/11
PT 3: Black VS African-American VS American
Ash: "Racially it is different. Charlize Theron is an ACTUAL African American. The new Princess of Monaco is also an African. They don't look black to me..."
Jos: "that’s not what I mean and those kinds of people aren’t why the term African American was created. Black by definition has to do with the fact that your ancestors are from Africa you have RACIAL origins there. Charlice Theron wasn't born in American at all, she just lives here now lol. Her people's origins are in Europe. So really she's African European"
Tierra: "Jos I know what you're trying to say, I disagree with your last point only. I think Ant cleared it up best. If I can remember correctly, my biology teacher in high school put it like this:
Race = the color of your skin
African/American= nationality
Culture= ethnicity
You can identify as Black because of your skin, be American, but your ethnicity be Dominican, such as my friend Vasti. Beyond that, I think it's stupid to expect someone to look at you from the outside and be able to figure out "what" you are. "Oh, I’m not black, I'm southern, American and my great grandma is Irish." GTFOH."
Jos: "Well agree to disagree. Although the term African American may be a little inaccurate, I don’t dislike it because it associates me with Africa or African culture. I look the way I do mostly because of my African Ancestors. It may have been ...a while ago that my great great great whoever came across the ocean but that’s still the biggest part of me. And there ARE cultural differences.
The way we dance, and sing and some of the foods we prepare are based on cultural ways of life in Africa. Yes we’ve made our own culture here but I recognize the similarities and I’m proud of them. At the End of the day I'm American and I do think it's annoying that you don't hear white people call themselves European American. For some reason we have the additive on our nationality."
Ant: "Ash I understand your argument but you're arguing over semantics. You can argue over the name if you want but you are categorically an African-American. You are an African-American because you are black, your ancestry goes back to Africa and due to history you can't pinpoint where.
And African isn't an ethnicity anymore than European or North American. It's a name used to describe anyone living on the continent of Africa. Ibo is an ethnicity, Ashanti is an ethnicity, Ethiopian, Nubian those are ethnicities. The people you named are African by virtue of where they live, but that is not their ethnicity."
Jos: "maybe the issue was that the black race and white race are colors, while every race in between gets to be associated with a continent or whatever. Asian/Pacific Islander, Latino/Hispanic, Native etc, maybe some people didn't want to be called black because their skin isn't technically black"
Ash: "Ant, I totally get that and what I'm saying is that society is wrong because they're too stupid to realize that we as a group aren't African. I just get annoyed by the hyphenated American thing."
Ant: "AFRICAN IS NOT A CULTURE!!!! Would people stop implying that 20% of the world’s landmass home to over 25% of the world’s population, over 200 languages, hundreds of ethnic group and thousands of customs is one abstract culture."
Jos: "that’s not what I mean and those kinds of people aren’t why the term African American was created. Black by definition has to do with the fact that your ancestors are from Africa you have RACIAL origins there. Charlice Theron wasn't born in American at all, she just lives here now lol. Her people's origins are in Europe. So really she's African European"
Tierra: "Jos I know what you're trying to say, I disagree with your last point only. I think Ant cleared it up best. If I can remember correctly, my biology teacher in high school put it like this:
Race = the color of your skin
African/American= nationality
Culture= ethnicity
You can identify as Black because of your skin, be American, but your ethnicity be Dominican, such as my friend Vasti. Beyond that, I think it's stupid to expect someone to look at you from the outside and be able to figure out "what" you are. "Oh, I’m not black, I'm southern, American and my great grandma is Irish." GTFOH."
Jos: "Well agree to disagree. Although the term African American may be a little inaccurate, I don’t dislike it because it associates me with Africa or African culture. I look the way I do mostly because of my African Ancestors. It may have been ...a while ago that my great great great whoever came across the ocean but that’s still the biggest part of me. And there ARE cultural differences.
The way we dance, and sing and some of the foods we prepare are based on cultural ways of life in Africa. Yes we’ve made our own culture here but I recognize the similarities and I’m proud of them. At the End of the day I'm American and I do think it's annoying that you don't hear white people call themselves European American. For some reason we have the additive on our nationality."
Ant: "Ash I understand your argument but you're arguing over semantics. You can argue over the name if you want but you are categorically an African-American. You are an African-American because you are black, your ancestry goes back to Africa and due to history you can't pinpoint where.
And African isn't an ethnicity anymore than European or North American. It's a name used to describe anyone living on the continent of Africa. Ibo is an ethnicity, Ashanti is an ethnicity, Ethiopian, Nubian those are ethnicities. The people you named are African by virtue of where they live, but that is not their ethnicity."
Jos: "maybe the issue was that the black race and white race are colors, while every race in between gets to be associated with a continent or whatever. Asian/Pacific Islander, Latino/Hispanic, Native etc, maybe some people didn't want to be called black because their skin isn't technically black"
Ash: "Ant, I totally get that and what I'm saying is that society is wrong because they're too stupid to realize that we as a group aren't African. I just get annoyed by the hyphenated American thing."
Ant: "AFRICAN IS NOT A CULTURE!!!! Would people stop implying that 20% of the world’s landmass home to over 25% of the world’s population, over 200 languages, hundreds of ethnic group and thousands of customs is one abstract culture."
7/20/11
PT 2: Black VS African-American VS American
Ash: "I'm ethnically American. I am such an All American girl that it annoys me that people think you have to be Becky blue eyes to be American."
Ant: "American is a citizenship not an ethnicity. America as a nation is inhabited by several different ethnic groups. There is no typical American. You'll find Americans with different customs when it comes to food, music, religion, etc. And there is no predominate commonality.
Normally for a country itself to be an ethnicity it has to be a monolithic population racially with a long history steeped with a common tradition/culture. Japan, England and Greece can be considered their own cultures. Or countries where racial and cultural mixing has actually taken place (and lower immigration rates) few places in the new world (exceptions for countries like Mexico and a majority of the Caribbean) have that history."
Ash: "I meant American in terms of the general idea of American. Not the niche cultures in America....Maybe my ethnicity is "Southern" then...lol"
Jos: "augh this never ending topic. Race and nationality are not the same. Everyone born in America or has citizenship here is American. If you're American but have parents from somewhere else then you could break it down to your nationality and nation of origin, if you know it. And unless a parent or grandparent is something other than of the black race (which covers the ENTIRE African Diaspora some people think you're only black if you're an African American.
I learned that when I lived in Cape Verde), then you black jack! you can nitpick if you want, like oh, I don't have "typical" African features, or I’m lighter than most, my hair is wavy, or my daddy has hazel eyes so that means..." but like someone else said the rest of the world doesn’t really see those lil differences"
Ash: "I am not an African American because other than melanin I have nothing in common with anyone that's a cultural African. I'm not an actual or ethnic African and I prefer not to be called one."
Jos: "I didn't call u one! lol. I get what you're saying. It may be inaccurate from a cultural standpoint, but racially it isn’t. I think some black Americans felt the need to not be looked at like some alien creature that has no home, whereas most other races in American can trace their people back to another continent/country. And the reason you're black at all is because somewhere down the line you have African ancestors."
Esh: " I mean, we're all so many things. But I think it's one of many things are we aren't completely in control of. I can say that I'm part African, part European, part Indigenous Caribbean, but this society sees me as Black and that's what I identify with the most. As much as I can talk about other parts, that's the dominant one and that's the one that mostly affects who I am and how I'm seen and treated where I live, so it makes more sense to me to have a stronger connection with that.
We can talk all day but white people are gonna call us black and say our hair is nappy so somewhere along the line I feel like internalizing it and making it positive may be a better way to deal so we don't go crazy."
Ant: "American is a citizenship not an ethnicity. America as a nation is inhabited by several different ethnic groups. There is no typical American. You'll find Americans with different customs when it comes to food, music, religion, etc. And there is no predominate commonality.
Normally for a country itself to be an ethnicity it has to be a monolithic population racially with a long history steeped with a common tradition/culture. Japan, England and Greece can be considered their own cultures. Or countries where racial and cultural mixing has actually taken place (and lower immigration rates) few places in the new world (exceptions for countries like Mexico and a majority of the Caribbean) have that history."
Ash: "I meant American in terms of the general idea of American. Not the niche cultures in America....Maybe my ethnicity is "Southern" then...lol"
Jos: "augh this never ending topic. Race and nationality are not the same. Everyone born in America or has citizenship here is American. If you're American but have parents from somewhere else then you could break it down to your nationality and nation of origin, if you know it. And unless a parent or grandparent is something other than of the black race (which covers the ENTIRE African Diaspora some people think you're only black if you're an African American.
I learned that when I lived in Cape Verde), then you black jack! you can nitpick if you want, like oh, I don't have "typical" African features, or I’m lighter than most, my hair is wavy, or my daddy has hazel eyes so that means..." but like someone else said the rest of the world doesn’t really see those lil differences"
Ash: "I am not an African American because other than melanin I have nothing in common with anyone that's a cultural African. I'm not an actual or ethnic African and I prefer not to be called one."
Jos: "I didn't call u one! lol. I get what you're saying. It may be inaccurate from a cultural standpoint, but racially it isn’t. I think some black Americans felt the need to not be looked at like some alien creature that has no home, whereas most other races in American can trace their people back to another continent/country. And the reason you're black at all is because somewhere down the line you have African ancestors."
Esh: " I mean, we're all so many things. But I think it's one of many things are we aren't completely in control of. I can say that I'm part African, part European, part Indigenous Caribbean, but this society sees me as Black and that's what I identify with the most. As much as I can talk about other parts, that's the dominant one and that's the one that mostly affects who I am and how I'm seen and treated where I live, so it makes more sense to me to have a stronger connection with that.
We can talk all day but white people are gonna call us black and say our hair is nappy so somewhere along the line I feel like internalizing it and making it positive may be a better way to deal so we don't go crazy."
7/19/11
"I will tear my clothes off for Putin."... Awkward Much??
"In a case of naked political ambition, female fans of Vladimir Putin are being urged to strip down to show their support for the Russian prime minister. Supporters launched an online campaign asking young women to take it all off for Putin, who is mulling a bid to retake the Russian presidency.
A video featuring a brunette student named Diana appeared on a lawmaker's site on Sunday, London's Telegraph reported. The woman wearing a suit takes out a white top and writes on it, "I will tear my clothes off for Putin."
Then she starts to strip. The group behind the video, which identifies itself as "Putin's Army," said its goal is to show that Putin is supported by "beautiful, young and smart girls." The campaign promises girls a chance to win an iPad2 if they strip for Putin before the vote next March.
"Every girl will be on the Internet - a star!" the site promises. Putin now has a traditionally ceremonial position in the Russian government but is widely considered a major decision-maker. He was the country's president from 2000-2008 before his handpicked successor took over
Read more:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/18/2011-07-18_new_in_presidential_campaigns_russian_girls_urged_to_strip_to_show_support_for_v.html
A video featuring a brunette student named Diana appeared on a lawmaker's site on Sunday, London's Telegraph reported. The woman wearing a suit takes out a white top and writes on it, "I will tear my clothes off for Putin."
Then she starts to strip. The group behind the video, which identifies itself as "Putin's Army," said its goal is to show that Putin is supported by "beautiful, young and smart girls." The campaign promises girls a chance to win an iPad2 if they strip for Putin before the vote next March.
"Every girl will be on the Internet - a star!" the site promises. Putin now has a traditionally ceremonial position in the Russian government but is widely considered a major decision-maker. He was the country's president from 2000-2008 before his handpicked successor took over
Read more:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/18/2011-07-18_new_in_presidential_campaigns_russian_girls_urged_to_strip_to_show_support_for_v.html
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